Talk:Anarchist communism

Can we add cn tags instead of deleting?

Grnrchst, re your recent edits: can I urge you not to delete uncited material, but to tag it as needing citation unless you have reason to doubt it, and give editors time to see if they can find citations (rather than relying on them to check the edit history). Some of the material deleted appears to be sourced in the linked articles - e.g. I think this is the case of the material about Zapata. If nobody furnishes a citation for tagged material, it can go later. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:50, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, feel free to delete unreliable sources from the article but please, don't remove such huge chunks of the article with no prior {{citation needed}} tagging. Being quick in deleting unreliably sourced material is pretty easy as opposed to searching for reliable sources for potentially true information. -Vipz (talk) 22:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Organizationalism vs. insurrectionarism and expansion

Hi Gugrak, much of this section is badly written to the point of impenetrability. If you're keen to retain it, please improve it. Stara Marusya (talk) 17:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Title neologism

This is covered somewhat in the talk page history, but is this concept better known as "anarcho-communism" than "anarchist-communism" or some variant? Based on how I see it used in sources, the shortened hyphenation appears to be some sort of recent invention if not citogenesis. (My question from the move in 2017 was never answered.) czar 19:27, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

@Czar: It's not citogenesis, as it was used by Pengam 1987, but generally it does seem that "anarchist communism" (without the hyphen) is more common. Of the sources listed in the Bibliography, the following terms are used:

• "Anarchist communism" (without the hyphen) is used by 8 sources (Bookchin 1978, Esenwein 1989, Graham 2018, Marshall 1993, Nappalos 2012, Pernicone 1993, Turcato 2018 and Wilbur 2018)
• "Anarcho-communism" is used by 3 sources (Kinna 2012, Pengam 1987 and Ramnath 2018)
• "Libertarian communism" is used by 3 sources (Bookchin 1978, Nappalos 2012 and Shannon 2018)
• "Anarchist-communism" (with the hyphen) is used by 1 source (Avrich 1971)
• "Communist anarchism" is used by 1 source (Shannon 2018).

So at least in the reliable sources we have in this article, the unhyphenated "anarchist communism" appears to be the most popular. Google Ngrams too appears to indicate that "anarchist communism" is more commonly used than "anarcho-communism", with the latter appearing to come into more widespread use in the 1960s and only being most popular during the 1980s. Also I'll note that Google Trends indicate more searches for "anarchist communism" than "anarcho-communism" (I think the move nominator used bad methodology on this tbh)

To me, the main argument for keeping it as "anarcho-communism" would be for consistency across other ideology article titles. But I'm not sure that outweighs the common name policy. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:53, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that research. I'll retitle it.

re: the other ideology articles, I'd ask the same question of whether Wikipedia has helped propagate a neologism over the last decade. Not to say that it had no prior use, but that anarcho-everything has not been as prominent in sources as it has been on Wikipedia. But I think we can handle those one at a time. czar 15:25, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

To your question of whether Wikipedia has helped propagate a neologism over the last decade, my initial thoughts are probably yeah. It's a difficult task to find sources using the term anarcho-communism prior to the internet age. :3 F4U (they/it) 22:27, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Responding here now per your comments at the anarcho-naturism talk page. I'm not sure I'd call the hyphenated "anarcho-communism" a neologism per se, as I have seen it used in very old texts including some from the 1920s. As I said above, its relative popularity is newer and it was definitely coined after "anarchist communism", but I think worrying that Wikipedia is "propagating a neologism" here is an overreaction. (For the record, I still support the retention of the title "anarchist communism" as it's both the oldest and still most common name).

In the cases of other ideologies, I'll note the following ngrams trends: "anarcho-syndicalism" has always been the most used variant spelling, dating back to the 1900s;[1] "anarcho-feminism" actually appears to have been coined first, with "anarchist feminism" becoming most common through the 1970s and early 1980s, while "anarcha-feminism" became the most commonly used in the late 1980s and early 1990s, "anarchist feminism" returned to being most commonly used between the late 1990s and 2000s and then it swapped back to "anarcha-feminism" during the 2010s;[2] "collectivist anarchism" has pretty much always been the most common variant, with "anarchist collectivism" been most common during the 1920s and 1950s, and "anarcho-collectivism" only coming into use in the late 1960s;[3] "social anarchism" has almost always been the common variant, briefly being overtaken by "anarchist socialism" during the late 1890s and early 1900s, while "anarcho-socialism" has seen a relatively lower use since the 1900s and briefly became most common in the mid-1950s.[4] In more contemporary cases, the hyphenated "anarcho-" has been the only widely used variant, such as in "anarcho-primitivism"[5] and "anarcho-capitalism".[6]

I think its common use in "anarcho-syndicalism" shows that the hyphenated "anarcho-X" isn't necessarily a neologism, although it certainly seems to have caught on during the 1960s and 1970s. Grnrchst (talk) 14:45, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ngrams, they're quite helpful. I agree that the "anarcho-" prefix isn't necessarily a neologism (anymore, at least) for many terms (e.g. anarcha-feminism, anarcho-capitalism, etc).

However, I also think there is room for nuance in these terms (especially historically and outside of the narrow article title criteria). Terms like 'anarcho-syndicalism', were much more likely to have been called "anarchism and syndicalism" in the past, rather than a portmanteau [7]. Popular/accepted usage of a term depends on a lot of factors, so I don't think the title of the anarchist communism page necessarily justifies any other page move.

I wish there was more literature on historical usage of anarchist terminology, it would be helpful and quite interesting. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 15:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I have to point out one rather bad argument made here. You've forgotten a rather important factor: laziness—especially when typing on something like an iPhone keyboard.

If you include "anarcho communism" without the hyphen in the Google Trends search, you'll see that it significantly outscales both "anarchist communism" or "anarcho-communism". If you search in other places (such as YouTube) for "anarchist communism" the vast majority of results that have any variations of the phrase all use "anarcho(-)communism" as well.

I think regardless of the Ngrams data, people are searching for and using "anarcho(-)communism" far more than "anarchist communism", and there's a solid argument to be made that the common name policy actually favors "Anarcho-Communism". IlijiilI (talk) 06:12, 26 January 2024 (UTC)