Talk:Don Budge

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Nazi flag for von Cramm

The Nazi flag, someone set behind Gottfried von Cramm is an insult. Von Cramm was a known opponent of the Nazi regime, and was actually imprisoned by the Gestapo in 1938 for dubious reasons. The Nazis prevented him from winning Wimbledon in 1939, after he had beaten the eventual winner Riggs 6-2,6-1 at Queens. Later he was purposely sent into the line of fire on the Russian front. He got the Iron Cross there. In the last years of WW II he fled to his friend, the King of Sweden. After the war, von Cramm was the first German, who was gained entrance at an international sporting event, at Wimbledon in 1948.Please remove that sign (german friend 3.1.2007). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.60.180.188 (talk) 16:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

It may be an insult, but that is the Wikipedia tradition that apparently has evolved for this sort of editorial entry: the flag for the individual in question is that used by the country he/she played for at the time. Other people have objected to the use of the Franco-Spain flag, the Nazi flag, and the Soviet communist flag, among others. But all of them have either been retained or restored in the other articles, so it will undoubtedly be the case here also. Hayford Peirce 18:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I haven't noticed the German flag till today. Perhaps to follow the neutrality concept of Wikipedia one has to use the flag of the time but I recognize it's disturbing to watch it. von Cramm was arrested by the Gestapo because he was a true opponent of the Nazi regim. He was prevented from playing any tennis event from spring 1938 through spring 1939 and in particular he couldn't enter neither the Davis Cup in 1938 and 1939 nor the Slam tournaments those same years (except the Australian in 1938). Though von Cramm was Roland Garros titlist he couldn't enter the 1937 singles but was obliged to play the doubles with Henner Henkel, the future singles winner. One thing I would be enclined to do would be to suppress the "Von Cramm bowing to Hitler" photo in the von Cramm article. What's the interest of such a photo which sort of denigrates the German player ? Who wouldn't have bowed to Hitler in those circumstances apart from some extraterrestrial heroes ?

PS: though von Cramm's career was stopped by the Nazis and the war the German was still able to defeat Drobny in 1949 or 1950. Carlo Colussi 15:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

This is certainly one of those issues on which there will probably never be a consensus opinion. If you look at the list of Wimbledon winners, you will see the Nazi flag. In the French and U.S. Opens you seen the present German flag used for Von Cramm. So it appears to be a coin flip, as the issue can be argued either way. As for the photo of Von Cramm and Hitler I think it should remain for historic interest, for the very reason you're against it -- here's the great tennis hero bowing to this awful man, showing just what Germany had come to during those terrible days. It's not to degrade Von Cramm.... Hayford Peirce 17:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• • • • Perhaps Carlo Colussi 08:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it is bitter in particular for a man like von Cramm, to be linked that way with Hitler and the Nazi flag, because of all sportsmen in the Third Reich he didn't derserve it. His imprisonement was due to an affair with a Jewish actor, whom he helped to get out of Germany.By the way, Roderich Menzel, who gets a Czechoslovakian flag, was a German-Czech, and after Hitlers taking over of Böhmen in 1938, he became a German Davis Cup player. Formally, he played for the same flag then (german friend 6. Jan.).

Fair use rationale for Image:Don Budge Time Cover.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Archiving

Dear TennisExpert. The comments were over a year old and irrelevant to this article. Why, would you replace them? I don't see any point in archiving unsigned and/or irrelevant comments, Do you? -- Mjquin_id (talk) 05:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

See WP:TALK. Tennis expert (talk) 06:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I have, and I understand it. Would this discussion be more appropriate on Von Cramm's page? I have been deleting a number of "unsigned" and "off-topic" discussions. Would "moving" the discussion to that page and referencing it here meet with your approval? It would seem coherent that people should look for an explanation there and not here. -- Mjquin_id (talk) 07:09, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

You should not be deleting "unsigned" or "off-topic" discussions. Nor should you be moving discussions from one page to another. A discussion page should not be treated like an article. Tennis expert (talk) 22:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Records

These state that Budge has a 'stand alone' record for 14 consecutive tournament wins but the reference does not claim it to be an all time record and the Wikipedia article "All Time tennis records - men's singles" has Budge #4 on the list for this achievement - recommend remove this. There is something though that appears lacking here - by the FO 1938 Budge had achieved the non-calendar Grand Slam. While that was not something that got recognition until sometime later it is now considered a significant achievement and one that should be accorded to him as the first to achieve. Antipodenz (talk) 08:00, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Please, please, help

I posted this on Djokovic page.

I see a logical inconsistency here accros all wikipedia. It says Djokovic is not standing alone with his "non-calendar grand slam achievement", rather he shares it with Budge? OK.

But if so, why isn't Budge listed as non-calendar grand slam winner in his own page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Budge#Records

No sign of that there, it does not mention that he "shares non-calendar slam with Djokovic, in fact, there is no mention of non-calendar grand slam in Budge's page?

Why is non-calendar grand slam good achievement for Djokvovic to be credited with, but not good enough for Budge?

Also no mention that Budge has done/won non-calendar Grand Slam here, either? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grand_Slam_men%27s_singles_champions#Non-calendar_year_Grand_Slam

No Budge. The way I see it, Budge is not credited for his non-calendar slam, since the non-calendar grand slam streak is partially part of his Grand Slam strewak and perhaps it's double counting. I get that, but then it menans Djokovic is the only one with a non-calendar grand slam? Why does it then say he shares it with Budge?

I have nothing for, or against, either Budge or Djokovic, it just that I am amazed that we can invoke non-calendar grand slam so arbitrarily accross wikiepdia, depending on mood and preferences.

So I ask, does Budge indeed has a non-calendar grand slam, or has that been abolished (absorbed) into his Grand Slam?

Based on that reply/decision you should do a clean up and editing accross all wikipedia on this issue to force a logical consistency.

Thank you.

93.140.175.231 (talk) 08:02, 21 June 2023 (UTC) Leonardo the Voyager