Talk:Washtub bass

Removal of category

The washtub bass is not a Double bass, any more than an acoustic bass guitar is a double bass. Furthermore, washtub basses are not always in the double bass register, sometimes they are in the cello register. Do not remove the category for a *fourth* time, thank you. Badagnani (talk) 20:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Commercial edits

I have made some edits to try to contain the commercialism that this page seems to invite. Makers of "improved" washtubs abound on the internet, and some are using Wikipedia to promote their product. While I applaud their enthusiasm for the instrument, Wikipedia's neutral-point-of-view, non-original-work and non-commercial policies make many recent edits inappropriate.

To those wishing to promote your version of the instrument, you can do better by putting in a few hours of needed research and adding useful info to this page. Doing so will help to promote the instrument in general, which is good for you because it is good for everyone. 68.144.70.5 (talk) 18:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)DaveCW

Self Promotion

TaipeiScene appears to be inflating the notability of the unknown or rotating Washtub Bass player in a band that was nominated for a "Best Packaging" Grammy. Merely playing an instrument does not rise to the level of notability, and using the term "Grammy nominated" to suggest some level of musical proficiency, let alone on the instrument in question, is disingenuous at best. All provided citations list multiple different players or show photos with yet other players on the instrument, therefore it is hard to determine if there is one notable player among the many in the band, let alone the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability provides guidance, requiring, among other criteria - "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material... Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton, that "In high school, he was part of a jazz band called Three Blind Mice" is plainly a trivial mention of that band.

Listing "washtub bass" among the instruments played is likewise a trivial mention, just as listing "guitar" or "mandolin" does not qualify a player as being notable on those Wikipedia pages, and there cannot be a different standard applied here. It is a disservice to the truly notable musicians in the list.

"Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it.

As the only remedy for repeated, obvious self-promotion, I ask that TaipeiScene be banned from making changes to this page. DaveCW (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)DaveCW

I have found that the player, TC Lin, does meet notability requirements as a modern player, especially with the relatively small usage of the instrument in the present day. His inclusion on wikipedia as a living person attests to that. This is not the page to list every reason he is notable with multiple references that are already listed elsewhere on the site, but a place to mention his existence as a notable person that plays the washtub bass. Being a multi-instrumentalist should not disqualify him from being listed here. Any visitor to this page would be interested to see modern use of the instrument.

As to your claim of self promotion, that is completely unfounded. I have seen the player perform a few times in the past ten years during my work in Taiwan, though I have no personal relationship with him or the band he performs with. I am in the process of building pages for multiple award winning English speaking Taiwanese bands that meet notability requirements.

My choice to use the words Grammy nominated was indeed intentional, though not in the way you have accused me. It is incredibly unique that a person plays a washtub bass on two albums that were nominated for a Grammy, and is worth mentioning in such a short blurb. TaipeiScene (talk) 04:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Then we need citations. You have not provided a citation saying he plays the instrument beyond the usual unconfirmed trivial listing of instruments played by band members. I cannot find a photo of him playing, but there are photos of the band showing someone else on tub. I cannot find a video of him playing. I cannot find a recording of him playing, nor any evidence of him playing tub on a recording. I cannot find anything saying he plays well - not even you have made this claim. I cannot find any hint of his repertoire. I cannot find any musical awards for him or the band. Losing a Grammy for best packaging is irrelevant, and readers are mislead when this explanation is removed in your revisions.

One of your revisions mentions another player - what happened to them? Are they both notable, or is one more notable than the other? There are at least 4 other washtub players in the band according to your citations - where does it say that one or two are notable and the others are not? Sorting this out requires the reader to do the work, contrary to guidelines: '"Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content.'

The number of players of an instrument is not and cannot be a criterion, or we need a standard for how many is too many, and how many is not enough. I play the electric powered bagpipe bubble machine, and as far as I know there are very few other players - does that make me notable? There are many other washtub players around the world - maybe not so many in Taiwan. You need to find out how many there are - start in South Africa or a folk festival in New York. John Sinclair recently played electric tub on a proper theater stage in Calgary at a Rush tribute concert. He was brat and the crowd went wild. He is the best among a dozen players in Calgary, and may even be notable, but I don't have citations to back it up. Can your guy touch that? Care to throw down with John?

I cannot find anyone other than yourself, or any citation, that makes note of his washtub bass playing, let alone any degree of proficiency. Bottom line - I have never heard of the guy. My bad - help me out, and help out readers, with more than a citation of local coverage of a local band playing a local bar, and maybe a photo of them on a stage and not promo shots or them against a wall at floor level blocking traffic in a bar.

Maybe he is a notable washtub player - I'm open minded, and as a tub player, always interested in notable performers and willing to travel to hear notable performances. I'll even buy a CD if I can confirm he is playing the tub. So show us something - it's easy when a player is notable.

And yes, for removing the clarification about the Grammy nominations being for packaging (which would be presented to the graphic designers, not the bass player), you are darn tootin' correcto-mondo: J'accuse...! You should be banned for blatant bias and vandalism of important-to-the-reader information.

Provide proper citations.

DaveCW (talk) 18:02, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I'll try my best to reply to each section of your post. I don't see why it's necessary to be so sarcastic and contrarian. But I'll try to continue to assume good faith.

I'll go back through the references I compiled about the band and find a suitable one. I remember watching a video of them on a late night talk show building a washtub bass with the host.

I find it hard to believe you haven't been able to find a recording of one of their songs across any of their five or six albums that have the artist playing. I own two of the albums, and on the one I'm looking at right now he is listed as the washtub bass player on 9 songs. If you genuinely are interested in hearing him play before making up your mind, since you are seemingly in full control over who is deemed notable in the washtub bass world, you can listen to tracks 3, 8-10, 16, 18-20, and 22 of Hold That Tiger. That info is directly off of the inside cover of the CD found here https://yangfongming.com/HOLD-THAT-TIGER. That information was available for you as a reference on his band's page if you had looked. According to the award section on their wiki, track 10 was nominated for best blues song at the Independent Music Awards. Again, that information is already on wikipedia if you had looked.

I removed the inclusion of the other bass player in revised edits as they are not seemingly notable enough to warrant their own page, therefore not notable enough to be listed here. That was a mistake.

If you're looking for footage from festivals like the ones I've seen them at, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think they sell DVDs at festivals anymore.

I feel like I shouldn't need to add more than one MAYBE two references for a one sentence blurb. You seem to be requiring me to write an entire section here on his accomplishments in the washtub bass world. If I ever wanted to edit the wiki on him, THAT would be the place for that. Playing washtub bass on two albums recognized in ANY way by the recording academy is pretty impressive. At least I think so. It's hard to not notice you haven't pulled this with any other edit in the notable player section that seem to be missing references entirely, or other sections missing references entirely. You seemed to have singled me out because I wrote over your edit I'm assuming? No clue why you are acting the way you are. I hope you remain as diligent with reprimanding everyone else learning how to edit wikipedia. TaipeiScene (talk) 15:07, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, and next time you see him, let him know his website, linked from his Wikipedia page, is no longer working. DaveCW (talk) 18:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I will see them at a festival in December. If I get a chance to chat with them, I will certainly not spend any time talking to them about wikipedia edits. TaipeiScene (talk) 15:14, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

tldr; Provide citations of notability. 206.45.50.13 (talk) 15:35, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Merge

I believe this article should be merged with tea chest bass. It is functionally the exact same instrument with a metal tub in place of a wooden chest. A simply subsection can cover the difference in construction, culture and use. There's not enough information to support two articles and there's no reason to split it up. TheHYPO (talk) 12:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I think they are one and the same instrument. I would like to one other person say they agree, but if I knew what I was doing, I would merge the articles. DaveCW (talk) 08:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)