Talk:Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

Estonia Low‑importance

Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten is part of WikiProject Estonia, a project to maintain and expand Estonia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.EstoniaWikipedia:WikiProject EstoniaTemplate:WikiProject EstoniaEstonia articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : WikiProject Estonia/Missing articles
Assess : Rate each tagged article by quality and importance to the WikiProject if it has not been done. (See Category:Unassessed Estonia articles)
Infobox : Add infoboxes to articles without it
Maintain : Portal:Estonia
Photo : Upload and/or add a photo to articles without it (See Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Estonia)
Stubs : Add info to stub-articles and check for start-class.

Comments

Well, in absence of any other comments, I have moved the section mentioned below to a new section called "other" at the bottom...(TF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.183.5 (talk) 14:11, 30 April 2009 (UTC) I absolutely love this music and have done so for 15 years. I play it every day. However, I absolutely hate the prominance of the comment by journalist Jesse Kornbluth. (American journalist Jesse Kornbluth writes that, when AIDS first appeared in New York in the 1980s, Cantus was said to be the favorite music of men in the final weeks of their lives — "[f]or this music both acknowledges grief and suggests completion. It is, as Pärt has described it, 'like light going through a prism'.") I think this comment, if relevant, could be relocated elsewhere in the article and not ocupy its current status as part of the main introduction to the article. It seems little better than ephemera to me. What do other people think? (TF)[reply]

I personally would love to know more about the circumstances that led to the writing of this piece. For example, what was his relationship to Britten? Was this piece commissioned?

Sentence hard to understand

This sentence doesn't make sense to me:

"Half of the first violins begin playing the descending A minor scale, playing first one note from the very top of their range, then returning to the beginning and playing two notes, and then three and four and so on."

Do you mean to say the following: "Half of the first violins play a descending scale of A minor, beginning at the top of their register and working down one octave. As the scale is repeated, more notes are added to the bottom end of the scale, prolonging its length and lowering the pitch level."

Or did you mean to say: "Half of the first violins play a descending scale of A minor, beginning with a note from the top of their range. The scale is repeated, with more notes being added to the upper register each time." (149.157.1.180)

Neither of those. The first violins play A, A G, A G F, A G F E, and so on. See this image of the first page of the score. Gareth McCaughan (talk) 15:58, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Intro

Actually, introductions are for summarizing the entire article, per Wikipedia:Lead section: "The lead serves both as an introduction to the article, and as a summary of the important aspects of the subject of the article." Hyacinth (talk) 20:00, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point, Hyacinth. But the previous lead was far more than a summary on those points. And it was very selective about which "in pop. culture" items it referenced and which it omitted. And it was nearly three times as long as the info about the music itself! (WP:Undue weight). So how might we work to keep the article, including lead, focussed and balanced? Feline Hymnic (talk) 20:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We do need a lead longer than one sentence, and the use of the piece by Michael Moore is clearly notable. I think the description by the writer who spoke about AIDS was also very moving. I'm not wedded to that particular quote, but a description of it would be nice for the lead. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs}

Ending of the piece

The part about the orchestra leaving their bows in the air at the end. Can this be added to the article? Haven't seen that done in other performances of other music. Is it in the score? And why is it done? Just curious —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.121.69.23 (talk) 02:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:Benjamin Britten 1945.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Benjamin Britten 1945.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do?
	Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 01:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

About the bell strokes

The gap between two groups of three bell strokes is 24 beats, not 18. Am I right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ira75 (talk • contribs) 09:39, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Secular Not Verified

"Although Pärt is known primarily for his religious music, Cantus is a fully secular worK"

No citation, and unlikely to be accurate.

From Arvo Pärt Center:

"In addition, tintinnabuli is also an ideology, a very personal and deeply sensed attitude to life for the composer, based on Christian values, religious practice and a quest for truth, beauty and purity."

This piece is done in said style. Also, there are multiple critics/essays exploring the piece and it's connection to Pärt's spiritual style. Without better evidence, I am removing the mentioned sentence from the page.

Eleutheria Sleuth (talk) 09:54, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

English title should be preferred

I did not want to change the name of the article without announcing my intention here first, because I am sure someone would revert the edit.

Arvo Pärt does not really accept or condone the use of the Latin title for this work. The official international name for the piece is in English - "Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten", while in Estonia the Estonian title (under which it was composed in 1977) is used - "Cantus Benjamin Britteni mälestuseks". All authoritative and regularly updated resources on Arvo Pärt have made necessary changes long ago. See for example:

Therefore the title should be changed to the English one, mentioning also the Estonian title and in last order the Latin title that no matter what the composer wishes has been already used on several recordings. -- Toomas (talk) 08:56, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen the exact title used here many times: [1], [2] and others. Google states "Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten" returns 113,000 hits while your proposal, "Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten" 114,000 hits, so pretty much the same. The proposed move should be discussed correctly. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:06, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, thank you, I am very much supporting a proper discussion on the matter which is exactly why I have created a new section here and did not make the move. With all due respect, Google search results are by no means authoritative source for deciding the question. From the two links you provided the second one also uses the English title "Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten". Naturally there are and continue to be many earlier recordings and articles where the Latin title has been used. However, if we look at sources with any official status and authority – and for Pärt such sources are Universal Edition, his official publisher, and the Arvo Pärt Centre that operates in close cooperation with the composer and under the supervision of the Pärt family – the work is listed under its English title, reflecting the wish and intent of the composer himself. Of course, all arguments should be taken into account, however, at the moment I am not aware of any convincing argument in support of the Latin title except that it has been used almost as frequently as the English title on the world wide web. -- Toomas (talk) 13:19, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]