Talk:Lyke-Wake Dirge

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Christian or pagan?

I have had a long interest in the Lyke Wake Dirge, since first hearing the Young Tradition sing it in the 1960s. Despite the obvious Christian references in the song, it has been suggested that the dirge is originally pre-christian, and the Christian bits have been added at a later date. My recollection is that when Pentangle sang it, they introduced it by saying something along those lines. The idea that various sequential states are arrived at after death by donning clothing, consuming food and acquiring money which had been given to others in life does not seem to align with conventional Christian theology. I am familiar with Matthew "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in" etc, but that is not really what is described in the dirge. Has anything definitive been written on this subject? Bluewave 14:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed the "are pre-Christian" to "may be pre-Christian"; while many (if not most) old songs have pre-Christian roots, no conclusions have been reached. While the Christian theology may not be strictly adhered to, this is a traditional song rather than a doctrinal pronouncement and illustrates the idea of 'laying up treasure in Heaven'. It does not tally with what we know of either the Nordic or Celtic views of the afterlife either; the Norse believed you either went to Valhöll or one of the other halls of the Aesir, or else went to Hel, which unlike Hell, is cold and barren but not necessarily bad. The pre-Christian Celts, as far as is known, simply believed in rebirth into an afterlife much the same as this life. Mon Vier 13:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I picked up a translation of a Norwegian song which is similar in structure and concept to the Lyke-Wake Dirge, and was also described as containing pre-Christian concepts. Whether or not the concept pre-dates Christianity, it is interesting that the Norwegian and British folk traditions of the nineteenth century retained this type of song, despite presumably not being in contact with each other for a very long time. Also many scholars agree that folk tradition retained some pre-Christian elements, even if the meaning was lost (e.g. dropping coins and pins in wells), and even if the Lyke-Wake Dirge turns out not be one of them. yewtree (talk) 10:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From the Brig of Dread page: There is much in that song (Lyke Wake Dirge) that seems Germanic heathen. The "Brig o' Dread" probably being related to Bifröst (which probably means "trembling-way") or Gjallarbrú ("resounding-bridge" or "noisy-bridge") No essential nature (talk) 00:34, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Manuscripts? Date?

Are there any manuscripts or other things that can help date the song, at least roughly? -- 92.224.246.50 (talk) 18:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lyke isn't obsolete

The word Lyke in the title shouldn't be called obsolete. While the word wake is today mostly used for the watch over a dead, it has, and more importantly had, other meanings in different contextes. The essential meaning of "wake" is "not sleeping", alive still in the word "awake". Most of the times it would have been sth like "at guard". Guarding a lyke therefore is a defined event, a wake alone wouldn't have been. The german word, btw, is "Leichenwache" (or Totenwache, with Toter being a synonym of Leiche), and Wache is still a pretty versatile and common word, mostly referring to a guard. Skuckem (talk) 05:04, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fire and fleet

Surely 'fleet' is a variant spelling of 'flead' meaning pig-fat, used for making candles. This seems a simpler explanation than the one in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by D Humphreys (talk • contribs) 19:32, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]