Talk:Nazarene (sect)

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Possible re-naming of article to "Nazoreans (sect)"

Hi everyone, I would like to put forward a proposal to re-name the article to "Nazoreans (sect)" and to change the references to "Nazarenes" to "Nazoreans." Both the reference in Acts and in Epiphanius are referring to a sect that called themselves Ναζωραιοι, which can best be transliterated as "Nazoreans", and not Ναζαρηνός ("Nazarene"). The translation of Ναζωραιοι as "Nazarene" in many Bible translations is sort of importing the dubious assumption that Ναζωραιοι did originally refer to the town of Nazareth, even though it is not morphologically connected to the word Ναζαρέτ/Ναζαρὲθ/Ναζαρὰ ("Nazareth"). It seems more likely that it was originally the name of a sect that got associated with Nazareth due to the similarity of the words, and the fact that Jesus is said to have been "from" Nazareth in the gospels. As the article itself currently admits, "In the New Testament, the form Nazoraios or Nazaraios (Ναζωραῖος, Ναζαραῖος) is more common than Nazarenos." Montgolfière (talk) 17:55, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think WP:COMMONNAME applies here. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:14, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a decent point, but I think the article should at least have more discussion of this discrepancy, and shouldn't simply assume/assert that Ναζωραιοι originally meant "from Nazareth." That's the assumption of many Christian biblical translators, but modern scholars have problematized this view (see, for example, J.C. O'Neill's article "Jesus of Nazareth" in Journal of Theological Studies, Apr 1999, Vol.50(1), pp.135-142). The article Nazarene (title) recognizes the tenuousness of this connection between Ναζωραιοι and Nazareth: "Both Nazarene and Nazorean are irregular in Greek and the additional vowel in Nazorean complicates any derivation from Nazareth." Montgolfière (talk) 19:58, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see no issue with some discussion of alternative names for the sects, as long as the discussion is itself sourced to a reliable source, and is not original research. Jayjg ^(talk) 21:04, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. I'll try to add some good sourced info on the issue, and we'll keep the name of the article the same for now. Montgolfière (talk) 02:06, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

When this was moved last time, no one took into account redirects. Please try to do so this time.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:57, 6 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Fork

There's so much original research and guff in this "article" that a split into 3 different articles and disambiguation that separates all these various groups might improve things. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:07, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography

Hello everyone. I've recently come across some recent and/or frequently cited articles and book chapters on the Nazarenes that can help keep this page up to date. Does anyone have any thoughts on the following sources?

Oskar Skarsaune, “Evidence for Jewish Believers in Greek and Latin Patristic Literature,” in Jewish Believers in Jesus: The Early Centuries, ed. Oskar Skarsaune and Reidar Hvalvik (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, 2007).

Oskar Skarsaune, “Fragments of Jewish Christian Literature Quoted in Some Greek and Latin Fathers,” in Jewish Believers in Jesus: The Early Centuries, ed. Oskar Skarsaune and Reidar Hvalvik (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, 2007).

Andrew S. Jacobs, “Matters (Un)-Becoming: Conversions in Epiphanius of Salamis,” Church History 81, no. 1 (March, 2012).

Wolfram Kinzing, “‘Non-Separation’: Closeness and Co-operation between Jews and Christians in the Fourth Century,” Vigiliae Christianae 45, no. 1 (March, 1991).

Todd S. Berzon, “Known Knowns and Known Unknowns: Epiphanius of Salamis and the Limits of Heresiology,” Harvard Theological Review 1, no. 75 (January 2016).

Erik755 (talk) 21:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]