Talk:Beatrice Portinari

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Text written by User:FLpatty on "Beatrice Portinari,"

Beatrice Portinari, born in Florence, Italy, lived from 1266- 1290 and is the principal inspiration for Dante Alighieri's "Vita Nuova". She also appears as his guide in "La Divina Commedia" (The Divine Comedy) both in the first book, "L'Inferno" (The Inferno) and in the second half of "Purgatorio" (Purgatory) as well as the whole of the "Paradiso" (Paradise). Beatrice must take over as guide from the Latin poet Virgil because Virgil was born a pagan and cannot enter Paradise.

The real Beatrice was the daughter of Folco Portinari. Dante met her when his father took him to the Portinari house for a May-Day party. Dante was instantly smitten with her and remained so throughout her life even though she married a banker, Simode dei Bardi, in 1287. She died two years later but Dante continued to hold an abiding love and respect for the woman after her death. Dante himself married and had his own children.

Beatrice has been immortalized not only in Dante's poems but in paintings by Pre-Raphaelite masters and poets.

Did she know him?

Do we know what she thought about him? Did she even know his name?

A mention of Beatrice in the movie Hannibal

Even though it seems only superficial, Hannibal seems to be mostly based on La Vita Nuova (The New Life), especially for a number of symbolisms that put Clarice Starling as if she were Beatrice. But most importantly because there's a little opera scene that is based on La Vita Nuova. It could be used as a fun fact, not to mention that in the book "Demian" there is another Beatrice alusion, for a girl that's actually called Beatrice as well.

Does this article have the wrong name?

This article says pratically nothing about Beatrice, it is all about Dante's reactions to her. Should it be merged with the main Dante article, or renamed something like Dante's love for Beatrice? --JeffW 18:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but I think the solution is to change the focus of the article somewhat, as per the text at the top of the talk page. The stuff about Dante can stay, but the main point should be about Beatrice herself. In fact, I am going to do that now. Cantara 20:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Birth name or nickname?

"Her birth name is Bice Portinari, the daughter of Folco Portinari."

Beatrice must have been her real name, since Bice is the Italian nickname for Beatrice. My oldest living relative, who grew up in the North End of Boston in the early 20th century, is named Beatrice and nicknamed Bice. Gildir 22:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Does Beatrice appear in Inferno? And "L'Inferno".

The article says: 'She also appears as his guide in "La Divina Commedia" (The Divina Comedy) both in the first book, "L'Inferno" (The Inferno)...' It has been a while since I read Inferno, but I don't think this is correct. Beatrice is discussed in Inferno, and Virgil describes her intercession on Dante's behalf (Virgil's guidance of Dante is a direct result of this intercession), but she does not make an appearance until Purgatorio, and I'm fairly certain that she does not actually guide Dante while he is in Hell. Her person is too pure to appear in that demesne. Unless someone can find a place in Inferno where she puts in a personal appearance and directly guides Dante, I think this should be changed.

[EDIT: On rereading the canto in question (II), a case could be made for "appears in", even though it is only in a narrative related by Virgil to Dante, but I still think 'She also appears as his guide in ... "L'Inferno"...' is not accurate.]

Also, I believe that the name of the first book of the Commedia is "Inferno", not "L'Inferno". Is this correct? My Italian could be better, so I will defer to any native speakers on this one, but my understanding is that saying "L'Inferno" is a conversational device that could be translated (awkwardly) into English as "The book called Inferno". I've always seen it written "Inferno" when directly named (which would match the use in the article of "Purgatorio" and "Paradiso" to refer to the other books of the Commedia). The main Wikipedia article for the Commedia also calls it "Inferno". Also, the translation of "La Divina Commedia" should read "(The Divine Comedy)", rather than "(The Divina Comedy)".

Apologies if I seem to quibble. I would make some of these changes myself, but I am new to Wikipedia, and a bit unfamiliar with its protocols, so I am afraid of stepping on toes by making changes without soliciting comment.

Saitotarou 04:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I read it recently, the Ciardi translation. She doesn't show up until late in The Purgatorio, in The Earthly Paradise. --24.51.94.14 21:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Died 8 or 9 June 1290?

There are various sources that say she died on either 8 or 9 June 1290. Can these be trusted? -- JackofOz (talk) 13:05, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Citations Needed!

I removed the following:

"Dante first met Beatrice in Florence, his home city, when he was nine years old and she was eight, around 1274. She was dressed in a soft crimson cloth, and wore a girdle about her waist. Dante instantly fell in love with her, thinking of her as angelic with divine and noble qualities. "

That it might ever be known that she "was dressed in a soft crimson cloth" &c. is patently absurd. The first sentence, with a proper citation, might belong somewhere in the article. That a nine-year-old boy might "instantly [fall in love]...thinking of her has angelic with divine...qualities," is nothing but later adult imputation, and is completely out of character with a proper encyclopedic tone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.21.123.155 (talk) 05:49, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree this shouldn't be in the article without sources, but the idea that a nine year old boy can't fall in love with a girl and stay in love with her for years is ridiculous. I know it can happen from personal experience. And the mere fact that you did not have that experience is no grounds for contemptuous dismissal. The fact that the words seem not to sound like they're from a nine year old might be because this expression of the original feeling is from later; but that does not make it "adult imputation" but "adult expression", or it might be because he was brought up in a very Christian society where these where everyday words, and so spoke like that. Furthermore, let's not forget that the man was a genius so it's to be expected that he speaks more eloquently than his peers, and that goes for his youth as well.

And finally: We can't know what she was wearing?! Ever heard of memories? witnesses? testimony? If Dante saw her and instantly fell in love you can pretty confidently bet he told people about her in more detail than they cared to hear, and with certainty that he remembered this meeting for the rest of his life. But no, you're right... No nine year old understands the concepts of "soft" and "red", and none of them know the names of popular pieces of clothing, so obviously this is absurd.

If it 'couldn't ever be known' what she was wearing at the time then all history articles on this site should be erased. JohannesGH (talk) 19:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I am ten years late but I think so too. To add to the absurdity of it, Dante claims they were both nine when they met and met again nine years later in the ninth hour. I’m not sure if there is any other source out there which sheds light on the age of Dante, as he very probably was older than nine to develop this crush and infatuation that lasted into adulthood. PrinceofFrancia (talk) 15:02, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

"Dante wrote.." -- Where??

From the article:

"He wrote of her, following her death: "The love between them was wholly spiritual; after her death Dante realised she was more alive than ever.""

Where? Where did Dante write in the third person????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.21.123.155 (talk) 05:53, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

How did she die?

How? 129.16.192.210 (talk) 16:45, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Inquiring minds want to know Kid Bugs (talk) 06:30, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Certainly not "twice"

I have just read "La Vita Nuova" and I insist to revise that error. Dante proclaims several (7 or 8) times that he just met his beloved Beatrice and what it means to him. Not twice - but certainly several times. Joanna Wieczorek (talk) 21:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

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Birth dates

I changed her birth from 1266 to 1265, as she was only a few months younger than Dante (who is said to be born in 1265)

howver, we don’t know the exact birth dates of both those characters. Does anyone have any contemporary sources that talk about their lifespans? PrinceofFrancia (talk) 07:41, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Anyway. As a side note, does anyone else find Dante’s claim he met Beatrice when they were both nine, and then met her again nine years later on the ninth hour a doubtful tale? I’m not sure if there are any sources that indicate maybe they were older when they met as it is very uncommon for a nine year old to even develop an infatuation and still be infatuated years later with the same girl/woman PrinceofFrancia (talk) 15:00, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

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• Sonrel scenes from dante alighieris la vita.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:15, 9 February 2020 (UTC)