Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kirkland House

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was KEEP. dbenbenn | talk 01:29, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Kirkland House

I am listing this page as a test to see whether major university dorms can be considered notable and encyclopedic. —Lowellian (talk) 12:10, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

A comment. I do not actually feel strongly for either the keeping or deletion of this article. I simply want to offer this as a test of whether Harvard Houses are encyclopedic. —Lowellian (talk) 10:35, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

Delete. Non-notable beyond the description and link on the Harvard University page (the old external link to the Kirkland House website has been replaced on that page with a link to the Kirkland House article). If it is determined that this article is encyclopedic, then all the Harvard Houses should have articles. —Lowellian (talk) 12:10, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Would it follow that because one human being has an article in WP, then all human beings should have one? Wyss 22:03, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No, it would not follow. However, it should be noted that Kirkland House is arguably actually among the less notable Harvard Houses. —Lowellian (talk) 10:35, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like articles on other Harvard dorms might be helpful then. I lived in two dorms while in college. One was definitely not encyclopedic, the other was a soul-crushing, monolithic high rise monster, encyclopedic perhaps as a campus eyesore, a sad example of mid-twentieth-century modernist idealism mis-understood and gone horribly wrong, a barren, isolated warren of human suffering but I digress :) Wyss 11:56, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The dorm seems notable enough, especially with its notable former inhabitants, but the article could still use some copyediting to remove some POV praise. Keep, but I'll tell you know, that this can only be a precedent if you define major universities, keeping in mind stuff outside the US. Mgm|^(talk) 12:53, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
Comment. This type of thing has already been discussed on VfD. Someone proposed the deletion of an article about a dorm at CalTech. During that discussion, I pointed to the article on Dunster House, another of the Harvard undergraduate houses. The consensus seemed to be that the Dunster House article was acceptable because of the detail of the article and the notability of its former residents, traditions, etc; but that the Caltech dorm was just a dorm, and not sufficiently notable for an article. I can't say that this was particularly consistent, but I don't think you are going to get a precedent out of this vote, and, anyway, VfD doesn't seem to be a decision-making body that is terribly influenced by precedents or consistency. --BM 14:46, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep, seems a decent enough article. - SimonP 16:17, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
Keep interesting and encyclopedic article, and Harvard has a lore all its own. I wouldn't write an article on my own college dorm, but I see no reason to delete this one. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:26, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Gamaliel 18:09, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep, most dorms aren't, this one is, nice article. Wyss 20:33, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Significant age (World War I era), highly notable university, a few interesting recent guests, lonstanding traditions, attractive building and photos. Also a nice article, which helps. For the record, most dorms are not notable and belong (at best) in the 'Housing' sections of their respective school articles. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 20:40, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. It provides useful information to people who are interested in aspects of Harvard life. As to above comment that "If it is determined that this article is encyclopedic, then all the Harvard Houses should have articles" there is no reason that all the Harvard Houses should not have articles. But it is not the responsibility of the author of the Kirkland House article to make all of those articles. Sarahpillows, 02:05, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- only edits so far are to this dicussion thread
Comment. Several of the Harvard houses do have articles. The "House System" at Harvard was initiated in the 1920's, in an effort to transplant some aspects of the college system at Oxford and Cambridge to Harvard. The same philanthropist who provided the funding for this also helped create a similar system at Yale around the same time. The result is a set of "colleges within the college" at both Harvard and Yale, and the houses are a central aspect of undergraduate life from the sophomore year onwards. Each house has its own resident Master, who is generally a distinguished professor, Tutors (some resident), a library, and special courses available only to members of the house. After a few decades, it has worked out that they are more dorm-like than college-like at both universities, but they do have distinctive features that may make them encyclopedically notable in a way that a typical college dorm is not. --BM 13:02, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Keep. The page for Kirkland House should generate interest in creating pages for the other Harvard houses, since each has its own unique and notable history. The fact that Kirkland House is the first (or among the first) of Harvard houses to be added is certainly not a good enough justification to delete it.--skells 08:14, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- only edits so far are to this dicussion thread
Keep. The houses at Harvard are so distinct and interesting that I don't deny that they may all deserve to be listed. I think that all houses should be able to be listed if they want to be and I am very happy that Kirkland is listed. There are numerous speakers who come especially to Kirkland House and there are many great traditions that have been upheld in the houses for years. The house is historical place that is continue to grow and create more history. It is more than just a part of Harvard, so I don't feel that it should be made only a link off the Harvard site. I see no reason not to list houses. This is a great article about a one-of-a-kind place that deserves to be noted.--AKirklander 05:38, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- according to the edit history, comment actually left by user:140.247.173.30 whose only edit so far has been this comment
Keep. I think one additional distiction, which has already been hinted at, is that we can recognize differences between a residential community (such as the one here), and a building that has little substance beyond its use as a dorm. This is a good discussion to have, as it seems related to the larger question of how important does a thing/concept/etc. have to be in order to find a place in the Wikipedia?

Xlewis 16:46, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

- This vote is this user's first edit.

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.