Talk:Liu Shan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Pinyin transliteration

What is the pinyin transliteration? --Jiang 21:34, 10 August 2003‎ (UTC)

Just added Líu Chán. Were you asking about that? --Menchi 21:47, Aug 10, 2003 (UTC)

It's the same "Chan" as Zen. --Menchi 22:09, Aug 10, 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm just too illiterate to figure it out myself. --Jiang 22:13, 10 August 2003 (UTC)

Hi, i'm moving this page to Liu Shan as that is the correct pronunciation. There are two pronunciations to "禅": chán and shàn. In this case it is the second one as you might recall the adopted son of Liu Bei is Liu Feng. "Feng" and "Shan" make "封禅", which means to be throned. --Plastictv 10:34, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Shan is a transliteration: e.g. "Nanking" for "Nanjing". Wikipedia generally uses the modern pinyin. Aran|heru|nar 06:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Correct name

i've moved the page Liu Chan (which is now a redirect page) to Liu Shan because "shàn" is the correct pronunciation for "禅" in this case. There was confusion previously because there are "chán" is another and more widely used pronunciation for the character. However, the first son of Liu Bei (adopted) was named Liu Feng (刘封); and "封禅" (pronounced "fēng shàn") means "to be throned".

If the correct name is Liu Shan, then wouldn't the whole article be with the name Liu Shan? In almost the whole article, it is referred to as "Liu Chan". I'm not going to change it now, but I'll let you decide. FinalHeaven 23:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The correct pronunciation is Liu Chan. I am a native Mandarin speaker - 禅 can be pronounced in two ways, Chan and Shan. In this case, Chan is the generally accepted pronunciation. Aran|heru|nar 06:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

May I beg to differ. I too am a native Mandarin speaker (not that this is particularly relevant to this discussion). 禅 is only pronounced as Chan when it is used in a Buddhist context. This is analogous to how 南 is pronounced as Na in Buddhist contexts even though it is normally Nan. When 禅 is used in any other context (in particular, in the context meaning the passing of the Imperial Crown, which is the original intention of Liu Bei as can be seen from the name Liu Feng 刘封), it is always pronounced as Shan (see 辞海 for instance). Please also note that the use of 禅 in its Buddhist context would be extremely rare during the Three Kingdoms period. Herbert Xu 01:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Correct name

I think it should stay Liu Chan because he is mainly called Liu Chan and even in video games such as Dynasty Warriors 5 he is still refered to as Liu Chan.

However, as the article explained, there is strong circumstantial evidence that "Shan" is correct. Videogames aren't good sources. --Nlu (talk) 03:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Full ACK. Sarazyn • TALK • DE 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)