Talk:Bob Black

Citations and notability

This article is incredibly poorly sourced. Out of the 5 citations in the current version,[1] three of them are primary sources - two of Black's articles on post-leftism (cited in the infobox) and one on the Church of the SubGenius (cited for a brief sentence at the end of the biography). Another source is an interview with David Graeber, which doesn't have any issues.

I then looked at the remaining source, cited for information about Black's activities in the 1970s, listed as Uri Gordon, "Bob Black", in The International Encyclopedia of Revolution and Protest, Wiley-Blackwell 2009.". I thought this might be a reliable source that could help with improving the article's sourcing... but then I searched through the Encyclopedia and found no such article about Bob Black.[2] There's also no such entry in the Encyclopedia's physical edition and I can't find anything about this on WorldCat either. So it would appear that this "source" doesn't actually exist.

So in its current state, there is only one reliable source and it only contains a brief, passing mention to Black. The others are either Black's own work, or a source that doesn't even exist. This begs the question of how notable this article really is. I see that Czar (talk · contribs) found a source on an altercation Black had with Jim Hogshire, but doesn't appear to be in the article.

Are there any reliable sources that we can use to flesh out this article properly? Because if not, this may be subject to deletion, due to its lack of reliable sources and notability issues, least of all as this is a biography of a living person. If anyone can find reliable sources, please bring them up here or add them to the article. But right now, this isn't looking good. -- Grnrchst (talk) 21:55, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Looking through my own sources:

• I found a very brief passing mention in Peter Marshall's Demanding the Impossible, pp. 680 & 693. It mentions that Black criticised Murray Bookchin in Anarchy After Leftism and... that's it. Literally doesn't give any further detail.
• In The Oxford Handbook of Political Ideologies, Benjamin Franks also very briefly mentions Black's criticisms of Bookchin in Anarchy After Leftism.
• In The Palgrave Handbook on Anarchism, Rhiannon Firth and Benjamin Franks go into slightly more detail... on Black's criticisms of Bookchin in Anarchy After Leftism.
• In Purkis & Bown's Changing Anarchism, Dave Morland again makes a passing reference to Black's Anarchy After Leftism.

So all I've been able to find so far are brief discussions of Black's 1997 book, which range from a single sentence to maybe a paragraph long. Am I missing something? This looks barely enough to cover a stub for the book itself, let alone its author's biography. -- Grnrchst (talk) 22:21, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

I've added two sources to The Abolition of Work and here's another one that discusses Black outside the context of that one essay: Williams, Leonard. "Anarchism Revived". New Political Science. 29 (3): 297–312. doi:10.1080/07393140701510160. ISSN 0739-3148 – via Taylor & Francis.

I haven't seen any biographical discussion of Black and agreed that almost all of the coverage is in context to his anti-work essay. I think it would be sufficient to cover the author summary style within the book's article or, if need be, within a paragraph of contemporary anarchism (which itself I think will be eventually merged) on internecine warring among "contemporary" factions (which is also a context in which Black is covered, including how he's mentioned in The International Encyclopedia of Revolution and Protest, the reference volume you cited). czar 05:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@Czar: Ok, so would you object to me opening an AfD? Because if our sources only cover one of his books (either The Abolition of Work or Anarchy After Leftism) then I really see no need for a biographical article. I could write a wee stub for AAL but honestly it could just as easily be worked into one of our articles about Bookchin, or as you suggested, on contemporary anarchism. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:24, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

If we're planning to redirect/merge, we can just do that boldly as that is a preferable alternative to outright deletion/AfD. czar 19:37, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Aye I think maybe redirecting this to The Abolition of Work would be the best course of action. Maybe move the image of BB and any relevant info over there too. Then if someone does find sources about Black himself, and not just about his work, they won't have any problem restoring the article. --Grnrchst (talk) 20:04, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Deleted???

FFS, Wikipedia retains an article about Michael Hobbes and not Bob Black? Wikipedia:Recentism is truly alive and well, and the idea that Notability is WP:NOTTEMPORARY is seemingly dead. Black was a huge (and divisive) figure in 80s-90s Anarchism and a huge influence on Post-left anarchy. Admitedly, less well-known as the 2000s went on. Meanwhile, it seems anybody around today with an effing podcast will get a writeup in Wikipedia. The Recentist bias is over the top here. Peter G Werner (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)