Talk:Story of O

Old talk

She not only had a short name, she was on a short leash.

Some critics consider this the first bona fide novel to deliberately sexually stimulate the reader as part of the reading experience, as opposed to being porn, which does that without actually telling a story that anyone cares about. Subjective.

The French consider it a great novel. But they like Jerry Lewis too.

It's worth noting that the book exists in several censored forms, and that its original last chapter includes the heroine's voluntary death... -- 2002 Mar 26, 24.150.61.63

This "suicide ending", which is one of two possible endings mentioned in the book, serves as the final paragraph. It is essentially a footnote. As with the other "suppressed" ending mentioned in the paragraph before it, it was omitted by Reage and was never published. Joseph S Atkinson 07:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I consider Jerry Lewis a great comic. But I like Story of O too. And French. Unfree (talk) 19:52, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Title

It seems that this should be titled just "Story of O", to parallel the original title "Histoire d'O". I'm not very fluent in French, but I know there is a definite article (le/la) which is actually used in some situations where articles are not used in English. But mostly I rely on that being the name of three different translations of the book. Two movies were called "The Story of O', but I'd put more emphasis on the book titles. There is an existing, more recent redirection page - I think they should just be swapped. --NealMcB 22:59, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)

done. double redirections eliminated. --NealMcB 22:49, 2004 Jul 30 (UTC)

• As native French speaker, I totally disagree with the interpretation of the omission of the "L'" which has recently appeared in the article. The omission on the contrary gives more emphasis, more importance to the story. For instance we say: Histoire de France, or Histoire du règne de Louis XIV ... omitting the article gives also an 'old fashioned', ancient sound to it. It could also be an hommage to Sade Histoire de Juliette ou les Prospérités du vice 82.120.124.92 28 June 2005 21:59 (UTC)

Ring

What is the significance of the inclusion of the image of the "Ring of Roissy" on this page? There's nothing in the text to indicate why it's important to this article. --206.61.189.130 21:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It's the emblem of the secret society in the book... AnonMoos 02:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

See now Ring of O... AnonMoos (talk) 05:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Removed from the article

I removed the following from the article, as it does not appear to have any evidence to support it:

It is thought that a real-life O and inspiration in the entourage of Anne Desclos was French novelist Janine Aeply, the wife of French painter Jean Fautrier.

Please do not re-insert this into the article unless it can be supported by citation to an independent source, to which it would need to be attributed. -- Karada 09:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

• The source is Dominique Aury by Angie David - Editions Léo Scheer, 560 pp - ISBN 2756100307 - Biography in French Hektor 22:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It says at the bottom of the article that the film was banned in the UK until 2000 - however it was shown on Channel 4 over 10 years ago (i know this by the place i was living at the time) - is it a mistake, or was it possibly shown with either ignorance of the ban, or was the ban ignored? 81.5.159.222 (talk) 15:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Documentation

Writer of O http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/writer_of_o/about.php --Nemissimo II 14:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Public Domain

Some people I know have claimed Story of O (or perhaps the English translation) is now public domain. Does anybody have confirmation on this, either way?--Mightyfastpig 07:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to doubt that. Possibly the first English translation could be out of copyright in the U.S. if copyright was not explicitly renewed at the appropriate time, but there would need to be documentation on that. AnonMoos 17:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Damien Rice nonsense

I have no real idea who Damian Rice may be, but I do know that his alleged reference to the Story of O seems to be controversial and strongly disputed by some, and furthermore has very little importance to this article. Therefore, it is not appropriate to be included in this article without some kind of source or reference... AnonMoos (talk) 03:18, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Further (2011)

If the putative connection with Story of O is rejected by the editors at O (Damien Rice album) (as seems to be the case), then it should not be added here. AnonMoos (talk) 03:58, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit buttons

Two edit buttons, those for "Publishing history", appear out of place. Unfree (talk) 19:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Speculations about the origin of the name "O"

"Die Marquise von O..." is a famous novella by Heinrich von Kleist. Desclos being a professional writer is almost certain to have known it. In addition, the novel deals with the rape of an anonymous widow --- her name is abbreviated to its first letter. This can't be a coincidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.152.208.69 (talk) 23:01, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

However, there's almost no real similarity in subject matter. The Marquise doesn't even know she's been raped until she becomes pregnant, and is a mother of several at the time the story begins and the mother of a number of others by the story's end, without ascertainable masochistic tendencies... AnonMoos (talk) 02:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

the question of consent

Despite her harsh treatment, O grants permission beforehand for everything that occurs, and her permission is consistently sought.

This is broadly accurate after she leaves the château, but not before. I'm thinking about how to amend it. —Tamfang (talk) 01:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

We aren't directly told very much about René and O before the stay at Roissy. Asking consent is not the way things are done at Roissy, but she's not dragged away unwillingly there, and she seemed to know something about it before she went. AnonMoos (talk) 19:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, there are signs that while writing the first few scenes the author had not quite decided where she was going with it, and unfortunately there's scarcely a word about O's thoughts before she is put to bed the first night (in contrast to the rest of the book!). But I would point out:

• In the car, she clearly does not know what's going on. (But she does not question.)
• René's last words before O enters the château: ...si tu n'obéissais pas tout de suite, on te ferait obéir. (I wonder why this tense rather than n'obéis ... fera.)

Perhaps René's line in the car was first written as indirect dialogue (il lui dit que si elle n'obéissait pas on la ferait obéir) and then changed to direct quotation, without changing the tense. It wouldn't be the only slip in the first scenes. —Tamfang (talk) 05:08, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

• René tells his new friends that he has never tied her up.
• "Before leaving, I would like to have you whipped, and this time I ask it of you. Do you accept?" I think that's the only time she's asked anything before she meets Sir Stephen.

Indeed, in the scene where she meets Sir Stephen, she's distressed partly because, now that he and René have asked her consent, she can no longer tell herself that she is innocent of bringing about what happens to her. —Tamfang (talk) 00:05, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

—Tamfang (talk) 07:30, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

She may not know the specifics of what awaits her at Roissy, but she must have a fairly clear idea that things are going to be kicked up to the next level, and she doesn't run screaming from the car... AnonMoos (talk) 16:48, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I accept that before getting into the taxi she had agreed to (or even suggested) something vague. (A point in support: when she goes back to work, her colleagues ask "Why did you take your vacation at this season?" rather than "What happened to you?") But the phrase her permission is consistently sought means more than that, to me. —Tamfang (talk) 05:08, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

When she meets Sir Stephen, he and René ask for her active assent, and she finds it much harder to speak up than to accept passively what was done to her at the château. —Tamfang (talk) 16:00, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

In bed with René on the first morning:

«C'est parce qu'il t'est facile de consentir que je veux de toi ce à quoi il te sera impossible de consentir [....] On obtiendra ta soumission malgré toi [....]» O allait répondre qu'elle était son esclave, et portait ses liens avec joie. Il l'arrêta [....]

Here, not only is her consent not asked, it is rejected! —Tamfang (talk) 03:56, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

50th anniversary coming

It will be 50 years since publication in 2014. Is anyone planning to commemorate this? Like it or loathe it O is undeniably one of the most influential novels of the 20th century. Or indeed any century. SmokeyTheCat 09:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Is it really widely influential, or mostly only among certain subcultures? In any case, Wikipedia can report on notable anniversary celebrations, but it's not a place for organizing them... AnonMoos (talk) 12:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You misspelled "60" ;) —Tamfang (talk) 04:41, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Plot ending

I think the last scene of the movie needs to be mentioned in the plot section. Despite O's complete submission throughout the film, it ends with her burning an O into her master's skin. This ending is important and highlights complexity of the master-slave relationship. 69.119.232.155 (talk) 04:05, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

It's wildly inconsistent with the book, though. Add it to the paragraph about Jaeckin's movie, if you like. —Tamfang (talk) 04:40, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing complex in the master-slave relationship. If complexity there was ( in the book the tone is rather leading to the contrary ), it is put in the internal struggle of the individual, a balance between the requirements of her social statute that could be resumed with "arrogance", and her attraction for living a part of her life fully irresponsible. The masters intend to grant her that privilege, for their benefit while remaining themselves free, which means, themselves not obviously responsible for her degradation. By the way, there are some unsourced assertions in #Publishing history. P.R's choice for a name starts rather with Odalisque, and other considerations. --Askedonty (talk) 11:02, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

"publicity ban"

I wonder if this is a mistranslation. French "publicité" basically means advertising... AnonMoos (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

translation publisher

The Grove Press edition was translated by editor Richard Seaver (who had lived in France for many years) under the pseudonym Sabine d'Estrée and published by Barney Rosset, the publisher of Grove Press.

Um … is there something remarkable about that last part?? —Tamfang (talk) 08:08, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

No discussion of Frasier Crane?

Story of O was mentioned on Frasier, when Roz dresses as her for Halloween. People go 'Oh' every time she says who she's dressed as.

Just wondered if someone might want to mention that. -- 00:30, 14 July 2021 2a02:c7d:11fc:3300:2d76:66f6:d14f:da8f

It was in a previous version of the article, then someone eventually deleted it as pop-culture trivia. (At least it was valid trivia, unlike the annoying Damien Rice thing...) -- AnonMoos (talk) 07:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

une fille amoureuse

In the documentary, the real author of Story of O, Dominique Aury, talks about the book A Girl in Love. This book was written about how Story of O was written.

Book? That's the title of the preface to the sequel Retour à Roissy … —Tamfang (talk) 18:41, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to a digital record of Edition VIII of the literary magazine Encounter?

The point is that this exact copy contains a highly interesting claim about the book, that it was inspired by the Austrian philosoper Otto Weininger´s ideas about the absolute man and the absolute woman, and that role plaid by the character of ´O´ is a reflection of the absolute woman. I don´t cite the book that lists this edition of the magazine as a footnote within itself as a reference here, because the overrall subject of the book is too different from what is being discussed in the article here. StrongALPHA (talk) 09:44, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

It was edited by Stephen Spender. StrongALPHA (talk) 12:39, 22 July 2023 (UTC)